>>2805
I waited to reply hoping that someone else would step up a little more and give a plan that's fucking Sarge worthy; yielding plans of succumbing to an enemy and touting them to be better and more capable of winning. Where's the gumption in here? I trust two people in survival... My girlfriend and myself! I never hoped to get an army of people that could bring it like I can but I at least hoped that my influence would garner less cowardice.

You may see superiority but I see targets. Urban terrorism scenarios and analyzing tactics as well as drive will be the deciding factors of the winner of this war.

Is this a once bitten; you are in the process of turning, kind of virus/manifestation of symptoms? Or is it more one that you are all infected but death is the catalyst that turns one?

The answers to these and any other specifics will garner a thorough and winning strategy. No matter what you are more than likely dealing with an enemy that has a motivation to harm and further, one that has the upper hand if the only opposition it faces is the other side waiting to be taken. What are these thing's motivation(s) to stop if that's how they are dealt with?

The only way to make this close to a fair fight is to make them smart for zombies, but stupid for normal humans — IQs no higher than 50. So yeah, being able to open doors, use small firearms, follow simple commands, know how to hide for an attack, count to ten, and understand cause/effect; but nothing more complex than that. No "planning", really.

Essentially, they become the Velociraptors from Jurassic Park, only with opposable thumbs. Yes, as a human you're much more clever than they are, but they're also smarter than you THINK THEY ARE. If you consider them to be as dull as a post, you're gonna get eaten. If you think a mere door can stand in their way, you're gonna get eaten. If you think the one in front of you is the only one to worry about (another attacks from the side!), you're gonna get eaten.


As for the progression, it would be best explored (at least in the course of a novel, by my thought process) as going very slowly. I can see a normal person, once bitten, slowly and agonizingly having his mental faculties fail him (a la Flowers for Algernon) and being replaced by uncontrollable desires to consume the brains of increasingly complex creatures. At first, tearing into the brain of a sheep bought at a store, not even bothering to cook it, will sate you. A few days later, you beat your family dog to death and carve the brain right out of its smashed skull. Near as you can reason, this is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. There is no "right" or "wrong" left in your mind about killing a mere dog; there is only hunger. By the time you might have considered suicide to prevent the further tide of darkness, your morality has evaporated, and you go to your next door neighbor's house in the middle of the night and slaughter him and his family. Their brains are delicious, and nothing else seems to matter.

Deep inside, however, you still regret it, though don't understand why. Luckily, down the street is a loose commune of "people" just like you, and for some reason you don't have any desires to kill THEM and eat their brains. Perhaps, if you stayed with these people, everything would be okay; you wouldn't have that uncontrollable drive to murder anymore.

Unfortunately, a week later, a bunch of normals decide to attack your peaceful group. When they arrive, the urges come again, and once more you find yourself needing to kill again... to get inside their heads, and consume...

>>2807
It wouldn't be fair if they were around the level of "normal" people? I'll share what I see; at least a measure of what I see when interacting those that consider themselves of "normal" intelligence and knowledge (smarts). I see people that are joining into what George Carlin professed years ago ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q ). Not in that I see people adapting into well rounded and dynamic critical thinkers but people that work for money that they will never see as it pours out of their wallets and fingers into the accounts of those that collect it. But further people that don't realize that those collections wont be realized either. There's no wealthy person swimming in a vault of money like Scrooge McDuck, there ARE people going with out because they willfully believe that with money they have necessities and with out it they do not. I see people that squander their potential to rationalize and actually fix or at least better the world- willfully choosing not to eat well and grow what they can or re-use resources and believe that what they see before them is how it is laid out in front of them with out sceptically analyzing and finding out not only their form of truth but a deep and personal truth that can't be taken with out taking that persons life. If we can't get it right as a whole being alive, what chance do undead idiots that hunger for brains or flesh like most people hunger for money and iPads have in defeating people like me?

Well other than the fact it wouldn't be a zombie anymore. A zombie is brain damaged to the point of not feeling pain and will not stop attacking untill it can't function anymore. Give it a brain and it's just a really sick cannibal. I would rather deal with a really sick person than a swarm of stupid any day. Stupid isn't predictable and has no self preservation instinct. That is the whole fucking point.

>>2809
I like to hate fuck points into people sometimes so I wont go into this too-too much, but I will type that what stops people from doing certain things is the looming sense of repercussion. We've had posts about how a grenade wouldn't stop a zombie... Because some how it seems that in that posters mind a zombie is still a threat if it is a torso with a head and half an arm still attached. It is, but not the same threat it was with two functional or at least semi functional legs. You take away their legs, what do you have coming at you? Take away their arms? So on and so on. I think people don't realize that frailty and sturdiness are equal in that they are both words that represent observation and opinion. In my mind, you are what you choose to be and how you choose to show yourself. I choose not to take the limbs of those that I dislike or feel that I could benefit from doing so with because there is no rational need to; in a zombies versus humans reality, though? Yeah, take everything from them before they take EVERYTHING from you. Their having cognitive ability enough to talk doesn't change a damn thing.

What should be obvious is that I am typing about their motives and reserves for not doing what drives them will not have the rationalized stopping power it once may have. But, neither will it to us in dealing with them.

Explosives and traps in such a scenario isn't only for warning any more, it is a real deterrent as i'm sure they would be just as afraid of being severely damaged as you are of being hurt. I mean, losing ones legs is a real threat to your survival and i think most of the "zombies" would want to stave off death for as long as possible.

There is also the possibility that many of them, not being able to cope with what they have become or simply due to petty rivalry start killing off each other or themselves.

They would be much more dangerous compared to your usual zombie but things wouldn't really be much different from say any area with many warring factions as many of the usual deterrents are still effective.

A smart zombie is not a zombie.
If there is intelligence, there is fear, if there is fear, it is not a zombie.

The whole idea of the zombie is that they keep moving forward no matter what. Their strength is in their numbers.

But yeah, humanity is doomed and can be considered extinct if they can use firearms and realize they can wear helmets.

Lots of people have a very specific idea of what a zombie should be, and they're all saying that a "smart zombie can't be a zombie". Think about the current zombie archetype: brainless, shuffling, brain eating, undead, killed by headshots. Now think of how many classic zombie movies break at least one of those rules. Almost all of them.

Zombies are a work of fiction, and writers do what they like with them. In this scenario, they're smart, flesh eating and undead. Okay?

With a sense of self-preservation, the zombies have to up their game. They won't hang around in the streets or attempt frontal assaults (even with the benefit of firearms) because they don't want to get shot.

They have to use diversionary tactics, ambushes, sneaking, armoured assault carriers, or even (if they aren't too rancid looking) by disguising themselves as human. They may take a systematic approach to attacking apartments, going room by room to ensure there are no straggling humans in hiding. They will be good at finding hiding places, and though they may be tempted to smash food stockpiles, or they may leave them or shift them into the open. They may hide traces of a fight, so as to make a neighbourhood appear safer to travelling humans.

Strategy: You're essentially fighting tough insurgents who depend on killing you, and have to kill to maintain their numbers. If possible, head towards a rural area. Do not actually stay within a town or village, as that is where any smart zombie with a map would check. Instead, set up camp that is within walking distance of a food source/road/population centre, thus avoiding cursory searches made by zombies. Avoid creating visible defensive structures, as that is basically a way of alerting zombies to where you are.

If you are stuck in an urban area, avoid all contact with anyone. If you have a fortress, leave a deliberate "weak spot" on view, so the dumber zombies may attempt to exploit it and blunder into traps. Because zombies are smart, they are, ironically, possible to fool. Mess up an area with gore and corpses, and they may think no humans are around. They may not bother to search the more heavily zombified areas, so they could make good hiding spots. Heck, perhaps even walk out in the open, in full view of the zombies, in which case the zombies may mistake you for one of them at a distance, or they may keep their distance from "obvious bait".

This scenario basically turns you into a combination of serial killer and soldier behind enemy lines. You're alone against a vastly superior foe, almost certainly doomed, but you can have some fun picking them off for a while if you're clever about it.

Except if they're actually smart then they might just poison all the drinking water, spoil the food stockpiles, etc. There's so much that you need to survive and they don't; rather than taking the time to hunt you down it'd be easier for them to just deny you resources until you starve.

This is why the plot of Terminator was so stupid. Why not just blanket the entire world in nerve gas if it won't bother your own forces?

>>2848
You aren't the only one to post something retarded here, so hopefully that helps, but "vastly superior foe"? I posted before about how they would have just as many weaknesses if not more and maybe you didn't read that or agree but it's not because it's MY POST that it isn't how it would be as much as it's an issue of what these ghouls would be after. If they need us to thrive, why would they diminish their food supply that way? If I was turned into one of them (as unlikely but possible in this very unlikely to occur scenario) I would use my newly given time to wreck hordes from with in. 'Uh but Sarge, what about when the hunger hits you?' Oh, I think I would test as much different food sources as possible and if I even came close to eating human, I would fucking end what ever was left of myself. How many people do you think if turned, would just become undead freaks that feasted on the living? What makes your's and a good portion of the other posts dumb to me, is the assumption that this is black and white. There are hardly any rules and/or applicable information to work with so the stabs in the dark aren't as bothering as much as the idea that being a rotting walking corpse that can think and move but within the limitations of a decomposing body with seemingly only one driving process to their actions is some kind of prize. It's not only a death sentence; it's fucking torture with out the release! Until they encounter the actions of the Sarge or people using a similar mindset, that is. How fucking hard is it to think things out to a linear conclusion/end with a well rounded method and structure BEFORE ONE TYPES?

>>2850
>Mommy someone disagrees with me make them go awayyyy

>>2850
Who the fuck's mom are you on about, boy? Can't articulate your thoughts like a MAN? That's what I thought; why don't you go get eaten and let the real men like me keep survivors living up to their title.

>>2850

Supposing the zombies were THAT smart, there would be no reason for them to actively hunt humans. They would just capture a few, and then breed 'em like cattle (sort of in the style of The Matrix) for later consumption.

Once they've established a stable breeding line of compliant, weak humans, they can do whatever they like to exterminate the rest. Take over the world, if you will.

>>2850

This is exactly what i've been saying, if you see yourself as some sort of monstrosity or more fit to survive than all the other undead maniacs then what is stopping you from taking care of the competition, leaving all the tasty brains for yourself to savour.

>>2861

This completely depends on how often you need to feed, if you need to feed regularly then killing off all the other "consumers" is more beneficial to your survival than actually breeding food, this because humans replicate way too slowly.

What we need is billions of human/chicken people if we were ever to turn zombie to actually turn it into sustainable life.

A more highly evolved predator, fit to take the next place in line, don't you think?

>>2920

Not exactly, they don't have nearly the same lifespan as a living being as they are constantly rotting and will thus rot away eventually, that will likely also cause them to get dumber with time. They do have a few advantages though, foremost being no need to sleep and high endurance.

There is the problem of how they are going to increase in numbers, eventually they will reach a point where there is no prey left and if they must have brains for dinner then at some point they will die off due to starvation. There is also the problem of long term sustainability, the only way to make more little zomblings is to infect the living but if you do that then you put additional strain on a non replenishable food supply.

>>2925
How was this all not covered? People just take what they are going to out of information, I suppose.

Zombies or cannibals?

If the zombies are like humans, can't they get greedy and power-hungry and start making pacts and gangs? It would make sense that a few selected zombies would form say the united zombies of america or something along those lines?

the family from I Am Legend?

>>2948
They're motivated entirely by eating brains. If joining a gang means getting the most brains, they would. But if it means joining a huge group that would only give them a tiny share, they wouldn't. For that reason, groups would only grow as large as needed to tackle specific human enclaves.

This thread has derailed like 20 times over...

>>2848
nooffense but the whole skynet thing is that the original military ai that turned into skynet and made the terminators did not yet have controll of factories and the like. it's first priority that the government programed was establish safety for itself by elimintaing immediate threats and securing itself, hence why all people in the building were killed by the T-001 which were the originals big bulky things on tank treads. they killed the people in the skynet hq building so noone could stop skynet at the source, then moved on to acquiring weapons to kill the whole world, the quickest method was nukes as it killed almost all the population of the planet hence why they were used. large quantities of nerve gas would have needed to be manufactured. western society cannot agree with nerve gas as it is not humane ever since hitler gassed people and 3rd word countries don't have access to every material needed inside of fully automated robotic assembly plants like where ford,honda,and basicly any other car would be made.

my point is where would the machines have control of a factory where mechanical hands as well as the chemicals you would need were both plentiful. it is much more likely that any machine attack would be nuclear launching ours here in the us at china and russia as well as a few to other major cities in less nuclear nations for good coverage and then wait for the few straglers in china and russia to return fire before using the last handle full of american nuclear ordinance to clear out those survivors which would have been intentionally left long enough to return fire and ensure the mutually ensured destruction that has been around ever since more than one power possed nuclear capability inside of a bomb or missile

the flood
that is all

so all the zombies want is brains why not get a fake rubber brain on a hook over a stake pit

What would be so wrong with just submitting and becoming one of these zombies? It'd be a hell of a lot easier than trying to fight them off, until your imminent demise. I mean, at least they'd still keep many of the things essential to their humanity.

I've already typed along these lines but I will suggest once more that we should have an averages sheet made for what these 'zombies' would be. Their average speed, strength, intelligence/smarts, and capabilities versus average humans and their statistical average in the same fields. Further, do they need sleep, how long they can go with out food (and is it only brains). Y'know, just all the advantages and weaknesses of these things versus us. I mean only a fool would choose a team that I'm not on, that's a fucking fact but all the same I feel it would help everyone decide and choose better instead of all this assumption. Oh and >>3115, do go on and join them. I don't think I want to help protect an idiot that willingly becomes part of the undead and a cannibal just because it would maybe be a bit difficult to stay human...

these zombies sound a lot like people who hate fun in general

and also want to eat you

kill them before they kill you, remember, zombies without brains = corpses

these guys want your brains, thus, you'll just die

These zombies exist. They don't rot and they aren't dead, but they can "eat" your brain or kill you. And you can become one of them. They're called muslims. Religion is virus, like computer virus, but for brains. Enjoy the end.

>>3563
Religion is a logic virus. The mellenias old, finely honed, well-adapted memetics of the abrahamic faiths are the most successful and destructive of them all, crippling victims higher logic and critical thinking skills, and replacing the perception of reality with a reality of its own making, a self-serving wrath currently afflicting the vast majority of the earths population. Approach with caution.

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A made a few zombies cry in philosophy class.

At first, they were sweet and even sexy and fuckable, like female zombies can be. But later, they were angry and wanted to eat my brains, or at least get me fired from the uni department where I worked.

They were clever and conniving, and when I didn't get fired, they followed me around. They could open doors easily, and they knew how to use a telephone and a computer to try and eat my brain! They already ate many senior faculty brains, before my final death. I was refused to continue that philosophy class.

Dénouement?
I told a class of christians, including a christian professor, that I was atheist.

>>3569

Eloquently stated.

I have an uplifting anecdote, however; I was born and raised a devout (a.k.a. raving, foaming-at-the-mouth fanitcal) Missionary Baptist. By the time I hit my teens, my burgeoning education coupled with my basic sense of logic was calling 'BULLSHIT' on everything I had ever been taught in church; by the time I was in High School I was a true born-again atheist. Course, I did NOT tell my family...I wasn't ready to die yet, and they probably would have burned me for witchcraft, heresy, apostasy, or something.

So...there is hope for even the worst zombie. I started LIFE as a brain-eating walking corpse...but was cured, thanks to education and a little common sense.

In that scenario, clever zombies are just as threatening as people.

what if the zombies dont starve to death but instead they feel disconfort/pain if they dont eat humans for a period of time, and the hunger will grow in time until they go 28-days-later at a site of a person

cry in a corner since the humanoid intelligence completely undermines everything i fetishize about a zombie.

Clever zombie = Cannibal
Face it.

>>3823
Flying car = Plane
face it

Ahem, on topic, have any of you people read "Crossed"? They aren't zombies, strictly speaking, but it's basically the same scenario (hoards of savage ex-humans with an insatiable desire for blood and a semblance of intellect).

Clever zombie =common Hipster its just science!

so, the zombie heroes from marvel zombies? we are doomed.

telling who is a "zombie" and who isnt is going to be extremely difficult.

anyway, my first and foremost strategy is to play defesively. there are *creatures* out there, and going out to look for them will certainly get me killed.

This scenario is stupid. You just sign a treaty with them, give them their own country, supply them with lab grown flesh, and go back to your normal life.

Why even dicuss this, i mean the whole point about zombies is that they're stupid, they're only deadly cause of their obscene numbers. If they were smart, like a normal person they would be capable of fear and if that was the case there would not be much trouble because threatening them with a gun would be enough to make a whole mob stop and flee. Zombies are so careless about self-preservation because they are stupid and can't think "if i don't rip my own arm off, i might be able to hunt people better". A smart zombie, is just a really aggressive person.

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I can imagine the zombies having some level of logic while they are still turning. A few different productions have played off the idea that the zombies are faster, more agile, and dangerous when they are first overcome by the infection. As the virus quickly replicates and spreads throughout their body, it causes a jolt to their systems powerful enough to help grandma do a full sprint and climb fences. The virus simply wants to spread, and this rage mode during the initial infection acts as an agent for that. It also helps explain how it could spread to apocalyptic levels so fast. As time passes, the host body is completely consumed by the virus, possibly incapacitated from damage and wounds, and its normal energy stores are burned out.

The pathology of the condition could go a few ways from here. Mutations are certainly a possibility. My take is that the virus then shifts gears and tries to preserve the host body (so it can go on spreading the infection) despite being in a state of clinical death, basically turning it into a properly undead walker/shambler/crawler. It may be like Max Brooks suggests and the brain mutates into a new organ that overrides normal biology. The drive for human flesh is just a secondary impulse, and the virus may have a way of somehow using the ingested flesh for energy, though obviously not thru normal digestion and rather an almost alien form of viral metabolism. This keeps the host body functioning to continue spreading, and may even possibly fuel another rage mode.

>>4467
"The whole point of zombies"? They are a fictional monster - they can have any characteristics the writer wants to allocate them, for whatever purpose. It is particularly retarded to argue that there is a proper way to represent a make believe creature.

And no, a smart zombie is not just an aggressive person. Aggressive people don't gradually decompose where they stand, they don't have heightened endurance and pain resistance, and they don't have an all consuming desire to eat brains. Most importantly, they aren't the dead, come back to life.

>>4467
"The whole point of killer robots"? They are a fictional monster - they can have any characteristics the writer wants to allocate them, for whatever purpose. It is particularly retarded to argue that there is a proper way to represent a make believe creature.

And no, a smart zombie is not just an aggressive person. Aggressive people don't gradually rust where they stand, they don't have heightened endurance and pain resistance, and they don't have an all consuming desire to eat brains. Most importantly, they aren't the crashed, rebooted



fix't

>>2848
>>2848
>>2848
>>2848
>>2848
Why would they spoil food and water when they need humans 1. to eat and 2. to reproduce.

You seem to be missing the point dude.

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First off if this sergeantbrucewillis guy holds no military awards or honors I take it as an insult you try and use that handle,your tone is arrogant and silly in a place like this,BOY! second you kids need to look beyond the hipster crap of these zombies today and look to the fathers,zombies have the numbers always the idea,third i fall in the school of ROTLD where zombies being dead feel constant pain and only eating brains helps quell that pain.I realize this is just fapping to a world none of you could handle,like learning karate and expecting to use it a street fight! sure we can sit here all day,dicks in our hands but until shit goes down all the fluff you tactical ideals mean diddly...

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I realize this is just havin fun making shit up, ive enjoyed reading this discussion greatly,and at its core there is fun to be had here.Zombies are humans and subject to human faults even in death and to try and quantify it is absurd.

>>2799
Sounds more like an alien virus scenario, with people's minds being taken over by an infectious agent.

If they truly have as much ingenuity as humans I think it might be the end of the race.