Say, in the early Edo period (1603-1867) ... I'm surprised they didn't do it themselves, you know... to see where the Sun rises from.

>>14630
I think Japan was much too interested in Korea and China to concern itself with exploration.

Their governmental policy throughout the Edo period was one of isolation - "sakoku", locked country. It was thanks to this that they avoided colonization.

Their religion also doesn't focus much on converting "heathens", so there is little to motivate them on that aspect.

Also, because of the coriolis effect, it would be very difficult to sail to the Americas - unless they did some island-hopping.

The regions Japan did colonize were Sakhalin and Hokkaido (nothing much was gained, since there were only small iron deposits and fishing villages - of course these days, Sakhalin has gained importance due to fossil fuel deposits). Apart from these, they were pretty much happy with what they had, and too intimidated by the sleeping beast that was China to conquer any more territory.

If they had explored the Americas, I doubt they would have colonized it - I doubt they could have even managed due to the geographical difficulties in crossing the Pacific.

It's very difficult to judge how they'd treat colonials, because we have very little examples of pre-Meiji Japanese behaviour to minorities.
First is their treatment of the gaijin during the Sengoku Jidai: Some accepted them, some saw them as disruptors.
Second is the treatment of the Ainu people in Hokkaido. Although these were generally favorable with trade partnerships and friendship, there are also revolts and rebellions, betrayals and assassinations.

So basically, the Japanese, pre-Meiji, were pretty much like many European nations in the treatment of colonials and foreigners. Obey the Emperor, and you'd be fine.
It is especially during the Showa period when the "Japan Superior" and history of insanity took a nasty turn.

And indeed, we cannot say that the Meiji and Showa periods would be what they meant to Japan if Japan had colonized the Americas.

Japanese with a large amount of info on Japanese history (as well as Chinese and so forth).

Found this thread from google, usually people have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to Japan, so I will give you my slightly more educated thoughts.


The golden age of Japanese history to me, and many others in Warring States period to Edo.

These are also the most likely for ability to colonize.

From 1500's on Japan had reached a top level of war strategy, training and equipment that could theoretically go toe to toe (and in my opinion defeat) armies from anywhere else.

Part of this also came from the lasting unity of Japanese people, and the relationships formed between daimyo or lords, and their retainers, all the way down to ashigaru foot soldiers in some cases.

Other armies were and continue to be divided, fighting for their own individual causes alone, seperated at heart.


However. The Daimyo system which prevailed even after Tokugawa took over meant that we were one Japanese people, but we served under different lords, with different feelings.

But samurai were bound by their strong values, such as loyalty and honor, which would in fact prevent some from being tyrants to the people of other lands if they did take them over. Most likely, many lords who took pride in their domain, would want to add another countries territory to their own, and run it just as well. A poorly run domain with unhappy people or tyrany would be shameful indeed.

As you may know, when the big Korea campaign was launched, it was not actually motivated by Japan to expand. To Japanese, partly due to Shinto, Japan is the only home, and the only divine land. And there is no point in leaving.

The campaign was in fact organized because the great battles had ended, peace was supposed to set in with a united country, and yet, we were still full of ambitious men who still desired more out of life, and thought true death was not found in bed, but on the battlefield. Korea was attacked to theoretically save Japan from dividing again.

And many Samurai either refused to go, or went onlyout of loyalty, such as Date Masamune. Most warriors who went to Korea fought honorably, and highly respected their opponents.

Eventually China and Korea banded together, yet it is well documented that they stated that even together they could not defeat Japan. (So no, Japan was never scared of China or Korea, they stopped fighing them on any large scale because the war was not truly motivated, and most great samurai did not want to leave Japan).

As for America. Date brought katana to the Pope (he faked being both Christian and Catholic so if the shogun ever tried anything he would have his choice in who backed him up in telling the shogun to back off). He made the ship go to America to see what was there. They walked across Mexico then sailed to Europe from the other side.

He was a great undefeated warrior who would have been a great candidate to take over other lands, as well as Oda, Tokugawa, Takeda, and so forth. But he had no desire. He like many others only cared about his home of Japan, and maintained it well.

Also Toyotomi had maps drawn up, of how Korea and China would be split into territories for each daimyo. This tells us how it would have worked, the same way as it did in Japan most likely. But also tells us much due to the fact that the promise of these territories did not entice most samurai.


So that is my opinion on Samurai and colonies. As for Imperial's, they are shameful and should not represent Japan, and we can tell that they would not have been kind to their colonies, and they were also not successful.

Japan during and before the Sengoku period had neither the interest nor the capability to colonize anything more distant than Okinawa, and that indirectly. Culture was rural, decentralized, and based on a clan system that stressed total loyalty to one's family, particularly one's Daimyo. Hideyoshi's attempt to occupy Korea with an eye toward invading China was the result of one military genius' grandiose ambition rather than a true national interest in cultural expansion...Toyotomi Hideyoshi saw himself as a Japanese Genghis Khan, and if he'd had a bit more in the way of resources he just might have pulled off the same kind of grand conquests.

The western coast of North America, though; that just stretches the bounds of the believable a bit too far; I think Japan, unlike Spain, just lacked the large-scale maritime capability to do it. The concept would make for an interesting alternative-history novel, though, wouldn't it...sixteenth century fanatical Catholic Spanish conquistadors engaged in a battle to the death with equally fanatical Sengoku-period samurai along the California coast. Spanish fleets based on the Philippines try unsuccessfully to invade Kyushu; Japanese pirates raid Cadiz and the Spanish Mediterranean coast; a duel between the picked champions of Spanish crown and the Shogun is finally arranged to settle the fate of the New World.

>>14666

Good idea. But to keep things fair (and to stir the pot), the same advantages should apply to Spain, England, and Holland. THAT should guarantee some juicy fireworks!

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Japan couldn’t even colonize Australia let alone The Western U. S.. But if they did life for Australian Aboriginals probably wouldn’t have been much different. An Asian country would have forced the Aboriginals to live a worse quality of life than that of Asian peasants which was pretty bad considering they couldn’t use horses, wear better footwear than small planks of wood nor utilize any form of mechanization. That puts Australian Aboriginals back in The Stone Age which is where they were when Europeans showed up. However Aboriginals would have been divided up into smaller groups but they would have been all forced to submit to a single royal head such as a shogun and any Aboriginal who resisted would have been brutally punished including death.

>>14629
I was told in my history class and elsewhere that China had arrived on the West Coast before any Europeans, but had decided not to colonize it. Would like a source on that if someone has one.

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>>14707
Yeah at several points, China had gigantic fleets of enormous ships that utterly dwarfed anything the europeans had. Even as recently as the 1400s, they were on the prowl, and lucky for europe, when the chinese rounded the cape under Africa, they didn't keep going north forever, or they'd have certainly stumbled upon the french & brits taking pot shots at each other and destroyed them completely. Instead they went west and discovered murrica, discovered a shitload of cool tropical islands, made trade everywhere they could, spread goods and culture and technology and made out like kings.

Given the archaeological similarities between discovered works in the americas & elsewhere in the world, & how long there have been boats in this world, it's a pretty safe bet that individuals from everywhere have been steadily, continually "discovering" the americas ever since humans learned boatbuilding from neanderthals and set out on the water.

>>14628
With great difficulty, since the west coast has been pretty steadily populated for about 15,000 years, by many, many cultures each more experienced than the last, well-seasoned in the most brutal and effective warfare tailored to the land and environment.

>>> 14733

uhhhh...what are you talking about?


There is some evidence of Chinese contact with Western South America. A bit of pottery and chickens I think is what is boils down to. Likely following the island chains across the Southern Pacific. Not sure that would have ever been a conquest priority for them or Japan. China sat on and controlled the Spice Road the largest and most profitable trade route in history. They had no need to trade extensively with isolated island villages and extremely distant cultures on the opposite side of the ocean when they had the entire eastern hemisphere from Europe to South East Asia tied into their trade network.

The Europeans "found" North and South America by fucking accident. They were trying to find a cheaper way to trade with China and India that didn't involve all the trade middlemen between Europe, the Middle east, Persia, Afghanistan, the Steppe etc etc.

Why waste time conquering incredibly distant lands when you are too busy securing the trade network that has already made you and your ancestors incredibly wealthy, while other cultures wipe each other out trying to get cheaper or larger access to it?