at what point in history did I like the USA? in elementary school, when i was taught about citizenship and its responcibility. My fav historical time period for the USA? right now, is the best time.

Just after the Battle of Yorktown, when the 13 Colonies (just renamed as the 13 United States) were filled with joyous hope and optimism. Just before everything went horribly, irretrievably wrong.

Right up until Columbus washed ashore. That marked the end of thousands of years of struggle, of these continents developing their own futures. ...and doomed it with the same extension of europes disasterous barbarian culture and future instead.

Though technically that wasn't the U.S, so to more accurately answer your Q., right up until that insane & lovable psychopath Teddy Roosevelt. Why? Summed up neatly, have a listen to this:

http://www.dancarlin.com//disp.php/hharchive/Show-49---The-American-Peril/%20Spanish-American-Philippine-Insurrection

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I was listening to an Andrew Jackson biography and I just about cried within 30 minutes

Jackson is the spiritual embodiment of the world we live in, so america is officially evil already then

What's so wrong with being evil, can't that be a thing to look upon favorable, for teh lulz?

>>14119

Oh shut up tumblrite. If it wasn't for Europe the Americas would be Africa without metalworking or domestic animals and maybe with better architecture.

Anyway I'd the say the best part would be right around when we were conquering the everything on our way to the west coast.

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>>14375
lol you're on a fucking history board, talking about history, without knowing dick about that history.

>without metalworking or domestic animals

They had both of those things. You just expressed the stupidity and viewpoint every other idiot does that believes what little they were told in public school & never gave enough of a fuck to learn anything beyond that about the people whose land you're occupying. People who did shockingly better at managing it for thousands of years, who engineered massive civil projects creating the great plains, created an empire and trade routes between tribes stretching clear across the continent in 19 fucking directions, before running into the same structural problems every empire that gets too big to sustain runs into, but with the foresight to disband the empire before it collapsed and go their separate ways... all before this migration of the very worst of the eurofags, rolled in, who have in just a few short centuries, turned it back into the overcrowded trashed dysfunctional shithole they were escaping by coming here in the first place. Oh but the natives get to live in shrinking concentration camps now... (shit, I'm sorry does "reservations" sound more appealing to your fragile sensibilities?), so they should just thank the awesomely advanced Europeans for wiping out 95% of their population, taking all the land, and going back on every fucking contract ever signed right up through today. Good people, euro immigrants. Not a bunch of selfish savage barbarians whatsoever, shitting up the country, spreading their inherited jewish superstitions and bronze age cultures that you fucking dinks don't even know why you follow, which doesn't even fucking apply here...

I'm not going to say you should all be wiped off the face of the earth with a chimera virus, but someday, when somebody does it, it'll be easy to see how it was justified.

before it was the US.

>>14377
>creating the great plains
Indeed, everyone on the internet knows the Great Plains used to be a series of mountain ranges. The Paleo-Indians came in and ground those fuckers down to a large plateau and filled it with vegetation they brought from outer space.

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>>14381
You seem to be stupid about a few things. Since this is the history board, I'll do better than just insulting your dumbassery and briefly summarize what the fuck I'm talking about since you apparently just look around and assume everything you see is the way it must have always been since your great jew-king jeesus made it that way for you.

As the last few decades of archaeology you haven't been paying attention to have revealed, much of the modern western deserts were forested up until the natives early attempts at large scale agriculture got out of hand and the soil was lost. Several other smaller scale experiments were tried in various places, until a proper sustainable model was arrived at... The Great Plains were the result of many thousands of constructed timber and earthen dams, into which the waterways were rerouted, and massive tracts of land at a time were flooded, cleared, small hills levelled, soil tilled and redistributed, before being dredged again, to create agricultural plantations. Worked by tens of millions of people over many centuries, & reaching its pinnacle feeding the entire population of the empire of Cahokia, then the largest empire on the face of the earth both in population and geography, utilizing resources from every area of the continent. These floodplains are the largest civil engineering projects ever constructed in the history of our species, and still feed much of the world today.

After the empire collapsed due to a catastrophic disparity of wealth, religious/economic oppression, and violent revolution, and the tribes disbanded & mostly returned to their migratory lifestyles, forests slowly overtook much of the land. When the diseased/genocidal europeans showed up and everyone was killed off, the euros clearcut the entire country for timber, from one ocean to the other, and being fairly fucking retarded at the time and catastrophically depleting europe of its timber, had pretty spotty success replanting after their clearcutting efforts. Every desert and empty plain and every forest and field of wheat (not native either, brought here by arabs) you see today, was engineered with varying success and built by people.

This is the extremely abridged most basic history of this country. How the fuck do you not know it?

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>>14384
How do you not know that their culture is called Mississippian? Cahokia was simply the name westerners gave to their largest city, which comes from the name of a possibly completely unrelated native american tribe who inhabited the region around the city when Europeans found it.

You're going to have to a little more specific as to what desert the tinfoil hat blog you read said they caused, since there's more than one desert in North America.

>>14384
With all honesty and conviction, please tell me the source of this background. I have been an archaeologist for 20 years and have never heard this. You seriously must tell me where you learned this concept of history.

Myriad archaeology journals over the last 15-20 years, though mostly in the last 10. You can start catching up here:

http://bit.ly/1uQ0ars
http://tinyurl.com/nqbcelf

Have fun Mr. accomplished archaeologist man. When you're done, look up what's been discovered on Neanderthalensis since you've been out of school. Prepare to bawl.

>>14385
This is the only response I'm digifying your dumb post with.


That's all the patience I've got. Enjoy.

>>14404
Yeah, that's about what I thought. Even the links you provide state the city was called Cahokia, not the people or the civilization.

You really should spend a little time learning about meteorology and climatology, they do an admirable job of explaining why deserts form. Here's a clue: it has to do with rainfall. Forests cannot survive on 13 inches of rain a year.

>>14404

Damn, I was hoping to draw you out, and that you would pull out some real kook literature, and lay it out for us "over-educated scientists."

I looked at the books you recommneded...even read a few...guess what? None of them speak of the "CAHOKIA" being a continent spanning, geomorphology changing, uber Roman-style civilization. Granted they were big, and they did and built some big damn things, with a whole lot of people. And yeah they are realtively understudied (mainly because all their major sites are under modern cities)but your conculsions are well...FUCKING CRAZY.

The people of the Missippian Culture, which Cahokia was a town of, held influence over a wide area of the mid-west and not much further then that. Trade was a big part of that time in history but it did not make "CAHOKIA" the ruler of the damn continent.

Your land use ideas about damming rivers and leveling hills is something they may have tried, along the various river Valleys, but the Great Plains? That's glaciers,erosion, and mountian uplift not people.

I know you don't have a lot of pateince for facts and evidence, the kooks mind is a fast paced super-highway of conjecture and vauge inference. But if you ever pull the brakes and take in some real science, or maybe actually read the books you refered me to instead of just looking at the pictures. You might find that Cahokia and all the other Mississippian culture sites were pretty amazing without being a part of some super-civilization like you are suggesting.

Also, so many people think the people of the Mississipian culutres faded from existence and no one knows who their decendants are. Ask the Osage tribe of Oklahoma, they will tell you who they were and who decended from them.

Oh, and if you were gonna surprise me about everyone in the world having Neaderthal genes, thats pretty old news. Pussy is pussy...even w/ huge brow ridges and an occipital bun.

>>14404 14/09/16(Tue)09:36
36hrs later
>>14408 14/09/17(Wed)20:09
>I looked at the books you recommneded...even read a few...
I'm going to call bullshit on this!
>But if you ever pull the brakes and [...] actually read the books you refered me to instead of just looking at the pictures.
Pot meet kettle.

20 years experince and you think I havent read some of those books on Mississipian culture and Cahokia?

Pot meet reality...

again, tell me where you heard this idea, because its not in any of those books.

>>14410
I'm not the other guy, I was just calling your bullshit on reading those books.

>20 years experince and you think I havent read some of those books on Mississipian culture and Cahokia?
Some of them maybe, but not all of them and who are you to refute something you haven't even read, you're hardly an expert on the subject.

>>14411

Please dont jump to this guy's defense. You dont have to be much of an expert to know that what has been suggested here in previous posts is ludacrious.

If he had stuck to the point of talking about the genocidal take over of North America by disease ridden European treasure hunters, religous nuts, and heavily armed sociopaths, I would have been appluading and saying right on.

But instead he took us to a whole new fantastic world where a sinlge city along the banks of the Mississippi River dominated the entire continent and undertook a massive landscaping project that created the Great Plains.

THe Mississippian culture was amazing and yes very mysterious. They pulled together a lot of people and even the culutres around them were drawn to them for trade. And in many cases attempted to emulate them with their pottery, and subsistence practices. Like I said amazing, without the crazy.

I have to give him some respect, at least he didn't say fucking aliens built the mounds for them.

>>14411
We might be dealing with 7chan's resident Grandpa.

Among his many eccentricities, he insists there's only around 4 people who post to all of 7chan, and frequently gets upset when different people's responses don't make sense in the context of a single person's responses.

Then again, it could be just another tinfoil hat wearing dumbass. The internet is full of them.

Not sure. Even if you go back to the founding of the United States, the revolution was largely led by a bunch of rich pricks who didn't want to pay taxes which they rightfully owed England

>>14412
Read that shit, faggot.

Not a single fucking thing I posted isn't delved into in greater detail in those books. If you'd actually read any of them or followed the work being done on these cultures in the last two decades, none of the shit I said would be a surprise to you.

You are fucking old and so is your knowledge.

http://strawpoll.me/3852131/

>>14412

What, like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia

lol

>>14561
the USA only bombs 5 countries at the same time to preserve the peace in Europe, they're far enough away for no one to be able to do anything about it. If they didn't one of the European powers would have to which would lead to chaos in Europe.

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The 1100's, before it was USA, when nearly all the independent sovereign nations thought they'd give their tribalism and fighting a rest, and united to form the largest empire in the word at the time. Connecting trade routes from the copper mining & metalwork in the north along Lake Superior, the seafood resources all the way down florida, the clay work from the west, the boatbuilding and woodwork from the northeast, the artistry and craftsmanship from every region, and exploded in power and wealth and mercantilism, saw it quickly destabilize, until the increasingly impoverished and powerless masses learned the valuable lesson that maintaining centralized power over the entire continent of 200 million people is guaranteed to end in corruption and doom, because there are too many different varied environments that give way to too many ways of life and and too many different cultures that arise from them, and forcing a culture mashup of all of them was the death of what made their cultures unique and interesting and effective. It was better being smaller, independent nations, with their own constitutions and agreements and treaties between them, enabling migrating with the seasons through each others territories, far better in every way to sedentary urban life and hordes of do-nothing unproductive mouths to feed. So they broke down the walls the wealthy ruling class had erected to keep them out, chopped their heads off, burned the civilization to the ground, and went their separate ways, back to their independent nations.

Whether you think of it as a failure or a victory is entirely subjective, but either way, that's my favorite point in US history. Because admit it or not, it is the history of this place, and it is still relevant as hell.

Fast forward 600 years, and Europeans escape Europe, to build... the same thing here. And ever since, our ultimate root problem is the dysfunction of independent states trying to be "laboratories of democracy" doing whatever batshit crazy crap they want, combined with an overarching single central all-powerful federal government that moves too slowly to keep up with the times and no longer reflects the will of the people, legitimately corrupt, becoming more and more of a hinderance and less and less useful and relevant as time goes by, while its 300 million subjects find themselves stuck in sedentary lives, convinced it's as great as it gets, while getting lazy, fat, diseased, poisoned, poorer, powerless, miserable and angry about everything.

Shit is downright poetic.

>>>14573

What post modernist koo-koo North American Prehistory 101 class did you take? Trade networks were extensive but this description of a centralized entity managing and controlling the continent sounds like someone reaching for Marxist Theory and missing both the Theory and reality. Something can't collapse that never existed. Interregional trade does not presume interregional cooperation or centralized control.

Your assessment of modern American society is pretty good but your not relying on inference for that. That's just good old fashioned opinions formed from biased personal observation.

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>>14618
What next, are you going to adamantly argue with people who study the history of Rome that the Pax Romana never happened because you've never heard of it? Or perhaps the Thirty Years war? Or that the Phoenicians never existed because you've never seen evidence of it?

If you'd just read up on the subject yourself, we could skip having to copy several hundred pages out of books to to educate you for you.

Not that anyone would blame you for your lack of knowledge or interest in the matter. USkids have been taught from day 1 of their lives and this country, that there is nothing of value to learn about here pre-colonialization, and the average murrican nearly never encounters anything in their life experience to make them challenge it.

But if you're ignorant of something, it's generally a better idea to say "I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, please fill me in", not "none of that ever happened and you made it all up" like a fucking 8 year old who doesn't even have an idea of how much they don't know. That this has to be explained to you reflects poorly on your upbringing.

Goddamn gullible US nationalist fucks.

>>14622
>wait is that bioshock infinite's image of washington/tin patriot, the european union flag, the nazi flag, and the american flag and that eagle?

Full-dress Nazi rally, the old Madison Square Garden, NYC. The Nazis were popular in America prior to the Day of Infamy. They were BFFs with the Republican Party of the day. Remember that America declared war on Japan, so Germany had to honor their actual treaty alliance and they declared war on us. And that was the end of that.

>>14623
there was also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_New_Germany

but you probably knew these. Pretty funny how the Bund went down the same way Al Capone did, by tax inspectors. Prinzführer the Embezzler.

If they gained larger support, who knows how WWII would have progressed?

>If they gained larger support, who knows how WWII would have progressed?

If the Nazis had won Europe and corrupted America, would the Soviet proxies and apparat in the U.S. have been violently purged?

>>14778
>If the Nazis had won Europe and corrupted America
Since the same fat cats were controlling German as they already controlled USA, it wouldn't have been much different from today. Hitler would have been assassinated and things would have slowly cooled down, with bankers, arms dealers, oil businessmen and such doing what they do. Worst case scenario Europe would be much like Middle East is today, a flaming part of earth that is constant fighting over what part belongs to who, but certainly USA soil would be much the same it is today.

>>14800
>Since the same fat cats were controlling German as they already controlled USA
Yeah, those joos were in absolute control of Germany.